AN OUT-WORLD MEETING PLACE FOR MEMBERS OF SECOND LIFE ENGLISH
Announcement: Second Life English Community Discussion - Invitation - Important, Please Participate In This Discussion
To: Second Life English Community
Hi everyone,
Below are a few things I'd very much like to discuss in the coming days/weeks via forum (http://slenglish.ning.com/forum/topics/announcement-second-life), Twitter (http://twitter.com/kipyellowjacket) & in-world meet-ups (to be held @ http://slurl.com/secondlife/VIRTLANTIS/171/91/581), etc. Input and feedback from the entire SLE Community is strongly desired.
Discussion Points:
- SIM Prim Sharing & Launchroom Use
- Community Holodecks & Coordination
- Voluntary SIM Support Fee
SIM Prim Sharing & Launchroom Use
- - Background Info - -
In order to free up prims for all launchroom owners and community members, there is a need to periodically assess whether items which have been placed on the SIM (in launchrooms, etc.) can be taken back into the inventory until a later time (when actually needed). Freeing up additional prims can also help to ensure a more lag-free SIM experience, which benefits us all, including first-time visitors.
The approach to "prim management" on the SLE SIM has thus far basically been one of self-regulation, apart from the sending out of occasional "please-free-up-some-prims reminders". Other SIMs choose to manage prim use by allocating a certain number of prims to each parcel, but from our experience, having an imposed prim limit has often been a burden to individual launchroom owners - due to inability to rez larger or multiple objects when needed, for example. Moreover, the SLE SIM makes use of "advanced virtual reality systems", a.k.a. holodecks, whose functionality can become impaired, i.e. scenes render incomplete, when the below land parcels have imposed prim limits.
For the sake of getting back to the roots a bit (taking a trip down memory lane), "launchrooms" were originally conceived of to fulfill the desire to provide foreign language teachers meeting/teaching space on a SIM with a finite number of prims (15,000). The inventory was viewed as a kind of "portable resource bag", and it was suggested that a launchroom could potentially be used as:
a) a public or private group meeting point
b) a "launch pad" for off-SIM activities, i.e. learning activities on other SIMs
c) a place for pre or post- assessment of off-SIM activities
*d) a location for "stationary lessons", i.e. lessons which solely take place within the launchroom space and do not involve teleporting
*All teachers should feel more than welcome to hold "stationary lessons" in their launchrooms. These classroom spaces were only coined "launchrooms" to encourage teachers to see all of Second Life as representing "the classroom" and to avoid making them feel like they had to confine their activities to their launchroom space - after all, as you know, SL has so much to offer!
Launchroom owners were (and still are) encouraged to make use of the space in whatever way desired for the teaching of foreign languages and related subjects, so as to not limit creativity and freedom - but also asked to be somewhat minimalistic in terms of their prim use (when possible), so as to allow others to make use of the available prims.
- - My Question(s) To You - -
=====>>> Do you agree that self-regulation is the most attractive approach to managing SIM prim use? If so, how can we improve on what we are doing? If you are not a fan of self-regulation, what other approach would you suggest?
Community Holodecks & Coordination
- - Background Info - -
There are a total of 3 community holodecks on the SIM at the moment which can be made use of at any time by any community member - Second Life English group tag need only be active. In order to ensure that all the holodeck scenes (including larger more prim-intensive scenes) can be properly rezzed, the overall SIM prim availability needs to ideally be at least 1500-2000 prims.
Many people have recently expressed interest in making use of the holodecks, especially the builder's holodeck (http://slurl.com/secondlife/VIRTLANTIS/171/91/581), in the coming weeks/months. In order to ensure holodeck availability, it seems it will be necessary to begin coordinating their use a bit.
- - My Question(s) To You - -
=====>>> What do you think about requesting that use of holodecks be reserved by posting it as an event on the community website (http://www.slenglish.ning.com/events)?
Voluntary SIM Support Fee
- - Background Info - -
As most of you already know, the Virtlantis/SLEnglish SIM (including facilities and ongoing support) have always been free and unbureaucratic to acquire/make use of. The aim, to put it in a nutshell, has been (and remains) to act as a free and simple resource for language teachers and learners in SL - to be a kind of springboard for language learning activtites in SL by providing ongoing resources, connecting learners and teachers, and promoting a variety of in-world foreign language facilitators and "language learning groups".
However, on a more personal note, the monthly SIM fee (110,000 Lindens minus other SIM investments) has been taking a toll on me and my family in the last few months. Thus far, community members have only been asked to consider donating Lindens from time to time, and the introduction of any sort of fee, i.e. a launchroom use fee, has never been pursued as a desired option.
Pretty much everything about Second Life English, including group sponsored events (past team-teaching events, etc.) has always been free. As my own personal financial situation has recently become a bit more limiting, I feel the need to ask for a bit of help. I have the following proposal and would very much welcome your input and feedback.
- - My Question(s) To You - -
=====>>> As I would rather avoid introducing any sort of mandatory fee for launchroom/SIM use, I suggest a kind of "voluntary support fee" which would be paid on the individual launchroom owner's own terms, i.e. when he or she is able to do so. A donation/tip object would be placed in each launchroom to act as a reminder of the need to donate monthly - and a desired donation amount of $10 US per month would be recommended.
This would mean that launchroom owners would be encouraged but not required to pay a monthly launchroom fee of $10 (approx 2500 Lindens) - but that any and all donations less than $10 would also be happily accepted. I am personally able to continue to cover a percentage of the monthly SIM rental fee, and will undoubtedly continue to invest in new SIM facilities (additional holodeck scenes, tools, etc.), but help with paying the main SIM fee is certainly needed at this point in time. This proposed solution will only work with support from the community, so please do let me know what you think. I am all ears and open to all ideas, suggestions and feedback.
You are welcome and encouraged to leave feedback here in the forum, via e-mail, Twitter, or Skype, and at in-world meet-ups, which will soon be announced.
Forum Discussion: Here! --> http://slenglish.ning.com/forum/topics/announcement-second-life
Feedback/Questions Via E-mail: secondlifeenglish@gmail.com
Feedback/Questions Via Skype: kipyellowjacket
Feedback/Questions Via Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kipyellowjacket
In-world Meet-ups (to be announced): http://slurl.com/secondlife/VIRTLANTIS/171/91/581
Thank you for your time and support!
Kip Yellowjacket
Hi everyone,
Below are a few things I'd very much like to discuss in the coming days/weeks via forum (http://slenglish.ning.com/forum/topics/announcement-second-life), Twitter (http://twitter.com/kipyellowjacket) & in-world meet-ups (to be held @ http://slurl.com/secondlife/VIRTLANTIS/171/91/581), etc. Input and feedback from the entire SLE Community is strongly desired.
Discussion Points:
- SIM Prim Sharing & Launchroom Use
- Community Holodecks & Coordination
- Voluntary SIM Support Fee
SIM Prim Sharing & Launchroom Use
- - Background Info - -
In order to free up prims for all launchroom owners and community members, there is a need to periodically assess whether items which have been placed on the SIM (in launchrooms, etc.) can be taken back into the inventory until a later time (when actually needed). Freeing up additional prims can also help to ensure a more lag-free SIM experience, which benefits us all, including first-time visitors.
The approach to "prim management" on the SLE SIM has thus far basically been one of self-regulation, apart from the sending out of occasional "please-free-up-some-prims reminders". Other SIMs choose to manage prim use by allocating a certain number of prims to each parcel, but from our experience, having an imposed prim limit has often been a burden to individual launchroom owners - due to inability to rez larger or multiple objects when needed, for example. Moreover, the SLE SIM makes use of "advanced virtual reality systems", a.k.a. holodecks, whose functionality can become impaired, i.e. scenes render incomplete, when the below land parcels have imposed prim limits.
For the sake of getting back to the roots a bit (taking a trip down memory lane), "launchrooms" were originally conceived of to fulfill the desire to provide foreign language teachers meeting/teaching space on a SIM with a finite number of prims (15,000). The inventory was viewed as a kind of "portable resource bag", and it was suggested that a launchroom could potentially be used as:
a) a public or private group meeting point
b) a "launch pad" for off-SIM activities, i.e. learning activities on other SIMs
c) a place for pre or post- assessment of off-SIM activities
*d) a location for "stationary lessons", i.e. lessons which solely take place within the launchroom space and do not involve teleporting
*All teachers should feel more than welcome to hold "stationary lessons" in their launchrooms. These classroom spaces were only coined "launchrooms" to encourage teachers to see all of Second Life as representing "the classroom" and to avoid making them feel like they had to confine their activities to their launchroom space - after all, as you know, SL has so much to offer!
Launchroom owners were (and still are) encouraged to make use of the space in whatever way desired for the teaching of foreign languages and related subjects, so as to not limit creativity and freedom - but also asked to be somewhat minimalistic in terms of their prim use (when possible), so as to allow others to make use of the available prims.
- - My Question(s) To You - -
=====>>> Do you agree that self-regulation is the most attractive approach to managing SIM prim use? If so, how can we improve on what we are doing? If you are not a fan of self-regulation, what other approach would you suggest?
Community Holodecks & Coordination
- - Background Info - -
There are a total of 3 community holodecks on the SIM at the moment which can be made use of at any time by any community member - Second Life English group tag need only be active. In order to ensure that all the holodeck scenes (including larger more prim-intensive scenes) can be properly rezzed, the overall SIM prim availability needs to ideally be at least 1500-2000 prims.
Many people have recently expressed interest in making use of the holodecks, especially the builder's holodeck (http://slurl.com/secondlife/VIRTLANTIS/171/91/581), in the coming weeks/months. In order to ensure holodeck availability, it seems it will be necessary to begin coordinating their use a bit.
- - My Question(s) To You - -
=====>>> What do you think about requesting that use of holodecks be reserved by posting it as an event on the community website (http://www.slenglish.ning.com/events)?
Voluntary SIM Support Fee
- - Background Info - -
As most of you already know, the Virtlantis/SLEnglish SIM (including facilities and ongoing support) have always been free and unbureaucratic to acquire/make use of. The aim, to put it in a nutshell, has been (and remains) to act as a free and simple resource for language teachers and learners in SL - to be a kind of springboard for language learning activtites in SL by providing ongoing resources, connecting learners and teachers, and promoting a variety of in-world foreign language facilitators and "language learning groups".
However, on a more personal note, the monthly SIM fee (110,000 Lindens minus other SIM investments) has been taking a toll on me and my family in the last few months. Thus far, community members have only been asked to consider donating Lindens from time to time, and the introduction of any sort of fee, i.e. a launchroom use fee, has never been pursued as a desired option.
Pretty much everything about Second Life English, including group sponsored events (past team-teaching events, etc.) has always been free. As my own personal financial situation has recently become a bit more limiting, I feel the need to ask for a bit of help. I have the following proposal and would very much welcome your input and feedback.
- - My Question(s) To You - -
=====>>> As I would rather avoid introducing any sort of mandatory fee for launchroom/SIM use, I suggest a kind of "voluntary support fee" which would be paid on the individual launchroom owner's own terms, i.e. when he or she is able to do so. A donation/tip object would be placed in each launchroom to act as a reminder of the need to donate monthly - and a desired donation amount of $10 US per month would be recommended.
This would mean that launchroom owners would be encouraged but not required to pay a monthly launchroom fee of $10 (approx 2500 Lindens) - but that any and all donations less than $10 would also be happily accepted. I am personally able to continue to cover a percentage of the monthly SIM rental fee, and will undoubtedly continue to invest in new SIM facilities (additional holodeck scenes, tools, etc.), but help with paying the main SIM fee is certainly needed at this point in time. This proposed solution will only work with support from the community, so please do let me know what you think. I am all ears and open to all ideas, suggestions and feedback.
You are welcome and encouraged to leave feedback here in the forum, via e-mail, Twitter, or Skype, and at in-world meet-ups, which will soon be announced.
Forum Discussion: Here! --> http://slenglish.ning.com/forum/topics/announcement-second-life
Feedback/Questions Via E-mail: secondlifeenglish@gmail.com
Feedback/Questions Via Skype: kipyellowjacket
Feedback/Questions Via Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kipyellowjacket
In-world Meet-ups (to be announced): http://slurl.com/secondlife/VIRTLANTIS/171/91/581
Thank you for your time and support!
Kip Yellowjacket
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by wilson voight on -
Re: Voluntary SIM Support Fee
I know exactly what Kip is saying. I too feel the sting $500 USD per month tier payments plus development expenses all to implement a Second Life language project. As badly as I imagine that Kip would love to keep everything at SLE free, everyone in the community needs to understand that at some point there needs to be some user support. As popular and as funcional as SLE is, it shouldn't be that difficult to get everyone on board.
Here's my two-cents: If you are a teacher who is charging for your classes you should certainly be giving Kip a percentage of your class income. A teacher who is donating their time may feel constricted to rent a space and volunteer. In this case the student should be leaving a tip behind after each class.
It's possible that some of the educators at SLE are being rewarded professionally for participating in SLE. That is to say that you are being paid by your institution to spend part of your work month investigating virtual education. In this case the institution should be considering ways to find Kip some grant money. Even if you are an educator who participates in SLE out of your own curiosity it wouldn't hurt a bit to submit a budget request to your institution for a few Kip Lindens.
There will always be students who could not participate in SLE if there was any kind of fee. I think it would break Kip's heart if he thought that anyone would ever feel shut out. But those students who have no financial resources may have time that they could give instead. Some organizations have had great success with fundraisers in Second Life. A students time could turn into a valuable donation.
Finally, good luck Kip. I hope the SLE community will respond to your plea. I know that you feel the same about SLE as I feel about Instituto Espanol. We do it because we have to, because we couldn't be at peace with ourselves if we didn't.
Saludos,
Wilson
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Permalink Reply by Abraxas on -
Hi Wilson,
A great reply!
I also appreciate you mentioned the ability/possibility for students to take part in supporting SLE.
At many other places in SL even in real life they have to pay for the lessons.
So why don't donate what you are able to just to keep SLEnglish alive?
Martina/Abraxas
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Permalink Reply by Sheila Vine on
-
Dear Kip
Because of my new job I am now very time limited and much as I want to be involved especiall y because I am hoping to do a PHd on online education I feel I must become less involved .
I have some lindens but I have not entered face book for ages so I have no idea how many. You are welcome to them if I knew how to send them to you.
Thanks for all your help in the past and I hope to keep in touch.
Regards
Sheila
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Permalink Reply by Heimlaga Svenska on -
SIM Prim Sharing & Launchroom Use:
I advocate self-regulation albeit I could use a hint about how many prims would be acceptable as "standby prims". I have sometimes encountered problems when trying to rez some larger objects.
Holodecks:
With the entire Second Life at hand I do not have any strong opinions about holodecks. I behold them as virtual worlds in a virtual world, the same thing twice over. I am sure they have possibilities I am not aware of, to put it simply, so far I have not had any use of them. Whatever you decide I am sure it will come up to standard.
SIM Support:
Languages has become a hobby for me. Whatever one choose to do in their spare time there are probably some costs involved. I give a hand as a language buddy so I do not charge anything. But, as I often spend that amount of money on less important things I think I can afford to pay less than 0,25 € a day as a rent for my spot in the virtual world to keep the sim alive. The reimbursement is of considerable value and not convertible into any known currency.
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Permalink Reply by Włodzimierz Sobkowiak on -
>Do you agree that self-regulation is the most attractive approach to managing SIM prim use?
Yes. It'd be nice to have some more stats at hand, for individual launchrooms perhaps, to see how one stands vis-a-vis other teachers/launchrooms/plots. I'm ready to get rid of some of my stuff... if I must. I guess I'd first cut on my private belongings in the house, rather than on the many PAVed objects in my launchroom, whose raison d'etre is that they are there, for all to use and play with.
> What do you think about requesting that use of holodecks be reserved by posting it as an event
Seconded! I've not been using them too much, mostly because for pronunciation purposes the lavishly realistic simulations of scenes are not necessary. Also because there is no way to PAV them :-), and there's hardly any sound-file linguistic content in them, as it is. I do appreciate their potential, though, for practicing other skills and language areas, especially vocabulary and situationally located communication...
>Virtlantis/SLEnglish SIM (including facilities and ongoing support) have always been free and unbureaucratic
I've been gratefully using them for 2 years now!
>A donation/tip object would be placed in each launchroom to act as a reminder of the need to donate monthly - and a desired donation amount of $10 US per month would be recommended.
Fine with me... Even if this means I'd (at long last, I guess) need to remove the first of my "10 rational arguments why SL is better than RL" (see below for all ten... or rather nine now :-). And even if this means I'll need to find out about money exchange and all that, of which I've been blissfully ignorant all these years... To hit a more personal note (and Kip's thread is bound to bring up these galore, I believe): in my case it's both the launchroom AND the house - $10 is a trifling amount to pay monthly for a beautiful spot like the latter to call your own in-world, and come back to to relax at sunrise :-) (se my YouTube videos). I have never charged for my "Pronunciation with Wlodek Barbosa" lessons (of which there've been 45 now... plug...plug), and I do not plan to. Like some other discussants on this thread, I believe I can chip in a few dollars to help cover the cost of my SL residence and hobby (teaching). Any attempts to ask my RL Uni to help me cover this cost is utterly unrealistic, however, in my situation, i.e. in the Polish RL here and now :-)
Wlodek Barbosa
10 rational arguments why SL is better than RL (ver. 2):
-----------------------------------------------------
1. SL is free.
2. One can TP and fly in SL.
3. One can construct oneself in SL.
4. There is no pain, sickness or death in SL.
5. There is no hunger, poverty or war in SL.
6. One can log in and out of SL when one wants.
7. People are more open in SL.
8. Sex is completely safe in SL.
9. Everything is much cheaper in SL.
10. [Space for your own argument]
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Permalink Reply by Antonella Elia on
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Hi, I joined recently Virtlantis community ... before the summer 2009, but I 'm very grateful to Kip as he offered me the opportunity to have a personal launchroom where it's possible to meet my students and first of all to have a point of reference for my activities in SL, experiments, and so on. At the beginning I was very surprised that being a Virtlantis "citzen" an having a personal area was free, so now I totally agree to offer a monthly support to Virtlantis. I'll personally give it on a regular basis.
I'll soon eliminate unnecessary prims from my launchroom! I have recently bought an Horizon holodeck and after my purchase I discovered that there was one in Virtlantis. So I can share it with the rest of the community of course!!
Thanks again for the support and availability you gave me and as you have understood of course .... you have my total support!
Antonella (Astra Martian)
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Permalink Reply by Abraxas on
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Hi everybody!
I would like to join the brainstorming here - as a student with little SL-experiences - maybe my proposal is silly - I don't mind :)
SIM Prim Sharing & Launchroom Use
Have you considered to share launchrooms?
Teachers could share one starting point for out-of-SIM teaching or one class room etc. They just need to agree with the form and look of the place and coordinate the times of usage. Especially the time differences in real life will help to find people who are interested in sharing a single space.
I think there is nearly no launch room fully occupied, including the preparation time teachers will need.
In my opinion that will help to get along with less prims for each teacher respective launchroom, the basics are mostly the same.
Just an upcoming thought :)
Warm regards,
Martina
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Permalink Reply by Professor Merryman on -
Hi All! Kip and I both started over at English Village with similar goals in mind, provide a place for language learning to thrive in SL. While Kip has been focusing on providing a place for teachers to get their feet wet, I have been catering more to the students. In any case we both want SL to be a fantastic place to live and learn.
On that note, I'd like to chime in on the money side of things. Kip's put SOOOOOOO much time into making SLEnglish a great place!! If for nothing more he deserves to be rewarded with less pressure for paying.
So what are you getting at Professor?
Well, the way we do it at Cypris is by holding donation drives with goals. No subscriptions, as of yet, but instead just asking for whatever we can get. When I started Cypris Village we were able to raise $1,000 USD in a month. That was with a membership of only 50 or so. Now we are at over 350. I can only imagine Kip will fair better by being a little more vocal about his needs
Just a side note, everything I do in SL comes out of my family's pocket also. No research grants or university support. Kip and I do this because we believe it makes a difference. Nice people and nice communities...ain't it great!
Peace!
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Permalink Reply by Lawrence Crimmins on -
Abraxas; Following you attacking me in IM re payments for classes I have decided to withdraw the free classes I was offering on SL.
Your comments were rude considering I have given many classes free on SL-in fact you have received a free class from me and your slurs have left a bad taste in my mouth.
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Permalink Reply by Abraxas on
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Hi Lawrence,
If you understood my ims as rude, I am really sorry, I said several times in that discussion that we seem to misunderstand each other. (I am an English learner - not teacher :))
I said in that discussion for example:" then i t was my fault, excuse I did't want to say that - as you say - there is always a choice"
I think you missed that sentence.
And I think I pointed out that this is my opinion, that I wouldn't like to pay obligatory for the course, I would like to donate, you don't know my personal situation. I feel myself judged by you.
I didn't and dont't judge you!
I took my choice and said I am not able to attend your course, because after the month October you would like to charge your students.
I don't understand why you dropped another person from your friends list.
Maybe an accidental slip?
If you would like to continue that discussion, I don't think here is the right place to do it. We can continue this via email.
I am really sorry about this great misunderstanding.
Thanks for your response, I hope we can clarify this between ourselves.
Abraxas
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Permalink Reply by Barb Sakamoto on -
It all sounds fine to me. I don't charge my students, but will happily pitch in $10 a month for a place to meet them and to display the self-access stuff between lessons. One question--is it best to pay you directly via paypal (so, in dollars) or to buy Lindens and then pay you inworld?
I'm happy to abide by any prim limit, but would probably need something explicit (e.g., You have too many prims in your space--you need to get rid of X prims). I'm pretty clueless still :)
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Permalink Reply by Salty Saenz on -
I have no idea how you do it Kip .. I know it must cost a lot to keep and run SLEnglish .. I have noted the payment increases that have pushed many out of SL altogether. I am ashamed to admit (albeit true) that I have been a prim-abuser (prim-whore came to mind first). It is so hard to not enjoy shopping and adding things that fancy the eye. So, to get started streamlining, I just deleted a bunch of silly prims. But, also, I am willing to turn the house over to either community property or remove it completely if need be, as I noticed my neighbor Alicia has done. Would be sad, but at the same time I have enjoyed the ride immensely under Kip's overwhelming generosity.
Since Language Labs charges students to learn Spanish at Ciudad Bonita, I think that SLEnglish could do the same perhaps with a little facilities facelift and upgraded programming.
I can also make a small periodic financial contribution perhaps on a quarterly basis ... being that I work in Mexico ... trust me .. I don't make much money as I did in the USA. But, I can certainly contribute to keep SLEnglish going.!
Thanks, Salty
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